I spent my day off on the Mall as part of the National Day of Action for Immigrant Justice.
I’ve already expressed my feelings on the subject, and I suppose my presence at the protest says all the needs to be said about where I stand in the issue. Others bloggers, far more eloquent than I have already said everything that can be said on the subject.
On a personal level, I felt a rush of optimism while I was there that I haven’t felt in a very long time… We arrived pretty early and were able to get up close to the stage.
As the rally began I was so focused on the speakers that I never looked back to see how many people had filled in behind us.
The MC began calling out the names of Latin American countries- Columbia… Nicaragua… Honduras… Guatemala… Mexico… then he made a long dramatic pause before screaming out El Salvador!!!! My ears were overwhelmed with a sound that I was unprepared for. It was that weird level of noise where even though you're screaming and clapping as loud as you can- you can't even hear yourself.... I spun around and to my surprise saw a sea of people that stretched as far as any sea of people I've ever been wittness to.
According to the Washington Post- the early estimates are somewhere between 100,000 and 500,000... Both of those numbers seem equal in their absurdity to me. I would say it was probably somewhere in between 200,000 and 300,000- but I’m certainly no expert on the subject.Not surprisingly- after I discovered how many people were behind me... and to the left of me... and to the right of me- I started to get a little freaked out. We had to move back to a less crowded area.
I say it was not surprising because both my wife and my sister claim that they knew this would happen… As I led them to the front of the crowd they were both allegedly thinking “I don’t know why he’s taking us this way- he’s just going to freak out when we get there!”
They know me too well.
Regardless, we were still able to find a more comfortable spot in time to hear Senator Kennedy speak… He was very good and even threw out some Spanish that wasn't nearly as painful as the typical 'White Politician Spanish'.
I dare say that he may have even understood what he was saying! He finished up with very well received: Hasta La Victoria!
Our buses left at 6:30 so we missed a couple of the final speakers- but it was an amazing day none the less… Of course I forgot to bring a digital camera. All we had was a half-used disposable. I’ll post some of the picks once I get around to having them developed.
I spent a good hour this morning reading the news coverage on the event… All of the local papers (The Washington Post, The Washington Times, etc) did a decent enough job- but when I got to CNN.com it was pretty pathetic… Their “headline” story was about the Italian Election. Under US Headlines, this is what they had:
• 9/11 victim's last words: 'Don't worry, Dad'
• Man involved in Enzo Ferrari crash arrested
• Shaq gives A+ treatment to teacher
Are you telling me Shaq is more important than MILLIONS of Immigrants across the country taking part in mass protest!?!?
Despite that, I’m still clutching the optimism I found yesterday pretty tightly.
¡Sí, Se Puede!
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17 comments:
how cool to be in D.C. but all these protests all over the country are amazing. all these people demanding that they be recognized for the work that they do. for the rights that they have as human beings. it's incredible/exciting/electric.
Its unfair for me to comment on American politics but it must be a real thrill just to be part of a crowd of that size.
We have a large number of illegal imigrants in England (African, Asian & Eastern European) and it is creating a lot of tension in many cities. I think our problems a different to the US because we are very overpopulated (Imagine 60 million people living in one average size US state).
It was great to hear your account of the march--right in the middle of everything. I heard Kennedy's speech on CSpan before heading to a rally downtown. I hope people understand that these marches aren't about thumbing our noses at the law, but about justice.
As for the legal immigration process--it is a long, backlogged, convoluted process that creates more problems than it resolves. Fixing the process for legal immigration will slow down illegal immigration. The US also needs to focus on programs to improve conditions in Latin American and Asian nations so people might feel like they have a chance at a good life at home.
Meanwhile, however, you have undocumented workers in the US who have adjusted and make positive contributions to this country. And they have children who are citizens. Deporting both is an unrealistic expectation. But by establishing a fair process to bring these immigrants into the fold, we are taking them out of the shadows where they are easily victimized. Bringing them out of obscurity helps end that victimization and secures our country much more effectively than building an ugly, brutal, ineffective wall on the border.
At least that's how I see it living on the border and having family who have recently come to the US (both documented and undocumented).
DC is right about bloggers and news who can make these arguments much more eloquently than I. I encourage all to read both sides of the issue--I do.
The Informant-
I’m going to comment on a couple of your very vague statements-
"things need to be done legally and we need to have tighter security around our borders"...
-well that's what these people want... They WANT to do things legally... The only law they broke was wanting to feed their families. The system needs to be fixed so that all these hard working, law abiding residents can continue to contribute in a legal way... They’re asking for the exact same thing you’re saying you want.
The protests are against the House Bill that is incredibly in-humane. Any credible and respectable source will tell you that HR 4437 is about as sensible as the Patriot Act… I’m a little surprised you would be in favor of that (unless you’ve been trapped in a locked room with Fox News on)
Also, on the subject of National Security and our borders. The plans and ideas are out there for us to heighten security in a humane and just way… The McCain-Kennedy Bill address that issue.
“It's like us going to their country illegally and protesting against their laws. It makes no sense.”
-Are you telling me that people who have a legal right to protest shouldn’t be allowed to protest a law that directly affects them simply because they were born in another country?
“I'm sorry DC but I'm one of those people who feel that illegal immigrants should be deported back.”
-We’re talking about countries this Nation destroyed both through direct and indirect acts of terrorism… Many people have no choice but to come here to feed their families- so that’s what they do. Their kids are US citizens and now you’re saying “should be deported back.”
Where is the logic in that? Instead of deporting hard working people who contribute to our society- why not fix the system so that both the workers and this country can benefit?
“Illegals have no rights in this country to say anything about our constitution or our laws until they become legal citizens.”
-Well guess what? African Americans and women didn’t have rights in the Constitution until it was amended… Does that mean they shouldn’t have protested?! THEY WANT TO BECOME LEGAL! That’s what they’re asking… and actually they DO have a right to protest. Nothing in the Constitution says you’re not allowed to protest unless you’re a citizen… and once again, why shouldn’t you protest a potential law that DIRECTLY AFFECTS YOU?
informant- once again you seem to miss the point... Not only do the WANT to do things legally, they have the right to protest… There is no law in this country that says you can only protest if you were born here.
And laws have been made in the past that makes people who were illegal- legal... my wife for example! please tell me why my wife should have been deported. This country ruined her country to the point that her mom had to hide them across the river in Honduras so they wouldn‘t be kidnapped and raped, then she had to flee to this country- so she could send money home for her little sister… by the time she started working the US government stepped up and gave her and millions more a legal right to be here… which is what they should and eventually will do again for the people here now… So should she have been deported? It was technically illegal for her to flee here but a year after she did this country turned around and basically said “we know you did what you had to do- go ahead and stay… and when did I make this about race?
People have rights no matter what their legal status- you should be well aware of that since you're in law school. Would you tell a murderer that he has no rights? no you wouldn't- so why do you feel like you can tell someone who broke the law of crossing an imaginary line that they have no rights?
Have you even read the Bill that you're debating? or how about the alternative Kennedy-McCain bill? the bill most immigrants are supporting asks for those ALREADY here- ALREADY contributing to pay a fine and learn English so that they can START the process of becoming legal.
and again you start making these sweeping Lou Dobbs generalizations on this issue...
“Immigration has been a serious problem and we don't even know who is coming into this country.”
No it actually has not been a serious problem… politicians are making it an issue, but the truth is we aren’t taking in any more immigrants now than we ever were. US immigration now is about a third of what is was in the peak years.
AND at the 2000 census we found out that only 9.5 percent of the US is foreign-born... It’s probably less now because of the 2001 TPS ruling… You can compare that to 22.7 in Australia; 16 percent in Canada; 6.3 in France; 7.3 in Germany; 3.9 percent in Great Britain; and 5.7 in Sweden… We’re right in the middle as far as First World countries go.
and by the way, you're not just agreeing with Republicans- you're agreeing with the right wing nut job Republicans... the sane ones are fighting against HR 4437... under HR 4437 I would be a felon because I have helped honest working people learn English...
you still haven't explained to me why people who have a legal right to protest a law that directly affects them actually shouldn't be allowed to protest just because you think you should "have to listen to anyone who is an illegal immigrant protesting about rights."
by the way, I did finally see Brokeback Mountain... it was okay, but nothing to write home about.
joel, you were a part of history. wow. unlike me, at least you were able to join the crowd. it is amazing to see the show of unity. as the daughter of immigrants this is a cause that hits home. and on the mornings when i go to the bank and drive past home despot and see the hoardes of men waiting for work in the parking lot i think that something has to be done. these men, most likely undocumented immigrants with little other options for different type of work show up like clockwork because the vans always show up with work for them. i'm sure the contractors and foremen that drive up with work for them are most likely citizens that benefit from the cheap and underpaid labor they provide. (its like stealing candy from a baby--no need to be sneaking around like 'bandits in the night'). many citizens of this country also perpetuate and profit from the 'immigration problem'--their pretty suburban homes, urban condos and downtown highrises are oftentimes built by immigrant hands of undocumented workers. and i'm sure homeowners really don't care who is putting the ecru and eggshell on their walls. all the attention is on villifying the most vulnerable who probably only traveled to this country as a last resort for survival. (b/c as you stated earlier their countries were left in shambles by acts of terrorism by this nation) what about these citizens that break the rules? and as far as terrorism goes--terrorist are not exclusive to other parts of the world. this nation has grown and bred its own.
I love this discussion. First off, the Informant has made some good points about immigrants not having rights simply because they're not citizens. True enough; from a legal standpoint, they really have no grounds to protest. However, these people do work in our country and a good portion of them do pay taxes (if they have a fake SS#, they will pay SS and never draw a penny of it creating a windfall for the govt.).
And by your reasoning, then Americans should never protest against any foreign government since they have no standing as citizens of that nation. We would never again be able to protest human rights abuses in China, Darfur, etc. because we're not citizens of those nations.
As for this not being a Latino thing, we have to be honest. No one is talking about building a wall across the border with Canada. Any savy terrorist organization would realize that is sooooo much easier to just bring in someone from Vancouver or Windsor than to have them trek across hundreds of miles of desert.
If you truly want to stop illegal immigration, then take away the reasons for coming here in the first place: jobs. Strictly enforce those laws already in place and you'd have sufficient safeguards to stop the immigration problem. Of course, the dirty secret is that America lives off of illegal immigrants; we're only now admitting this publicly.
Plus, not one of the 9/11 terrorists came in from Mexico. They used our current immigration laws in place to enter this nation.
I kind of wonder if you actually read my post (or even my entire comments to you)... I went out of my way to say that everything that could be said has already been said and this was actully the kind of discussion I was avoiding... but you're right- it's been a good debate...
But you're you're debates are all over the place... you say what matters is legality but there is no law against people protesting... then you bring up what other countries would do in this situation- also doesn't matter because we're talking about this country...
then you make this off the wall statement that only proves the point people are trying to make: "And news flash: Mexicans just as well as any other nationality can be criminals, murderers, drug smugglers as well etc. That's why people need to gain access to this country legally. Let's keep it real here. "
- see nobody said Mexicans or any other immigrants couldn't be criminals- but the whole point of the bill being supported by the protesters is that they want to make a change to the system so that they can do things legally, and the vast majority ARE NOT criminals, they're workers who would come here legally if the system would be altered so that they could- and BOTH sides agree that the system needs to be altered...
I suspect that if you actually read both bills and were a little more informed on the subject that you would be in favor of the McCain-Kennedy bill and against HR 4437... it addresses all the issues you're worried about.
btw, as a side note, I couldn't agree less about your views on protest- it usually (but not always I'll grant you) involves a specific law being voted on (as in this case) and for that reason the politicians in fact do pay attention (protesters vote)... Would you say that the "I Have a Dream" march/protest/speech had no effect? how about the Million Man March? Or the Chicano Walkouts? these protests all made a diference.
the one thing you're right about is that I'm glad we had this discussion... I was hoping to avoid it but now I'm glad we had it. we both love to argue, that's for sure.
I don't know when I insulted you and I'm sorry if I gave you that impression... you never really refuted any points though- you just keep bringing vague statement about our country being in danger because of illegal immigrants...
I didn't even want to argue about this- which is what I more or less said in my post... Also, if you read my last comment I said that I thought we were having a good discussion and that even though I didn't want to have it, I was glad we did... I honestly don't know where the insult was- and once again I apologize if you feel that way- it was not my intention.
"First off do you honestly think any foreign country would tolerate us protesting on their soil about their laws while in their country illegally? No." - The Informant
This isn't about "illegals" protesting just any ol' law. It's affects them completely and directly. Tell me this... If immigration was a SERIOUS problem, don't you think that the U.S. would have stiffer "laws" and "procedures" upon hiring within the workplace (the cheap labor positions that the lazy American won't take)? No one cares for the inconvenience at the aiport post 9/11. Why? Because it had to be done. We NEEDED better security. If immigration were a SERIOUS problem (and the U.S. truly believed it was), I strongly believe that the good ol' USA would do something about it. If they didn't let the "illegals" work, they wouldn't come. Obviously, this isn't the "issue" the politicians would want you to believe. I know just enough to be dangerous in this conversation, but not enough to contribute very much. I will say this...
Had the U.S. not directly/indirectly invaded said countries, I'd probably agree with you. But if you did just a little research, you'd uderstand that the U.S. is the one who forced the "illegals" here in many circumstances. I mean absolutely no condescention with these remarks...
"Ok, DCNATS, dont' insult me. I read your posts but I don't agree with the stuff you say so chill dude. Just because I'm good at arguing and refuting your points which to me many are weak doesn't mean you have to insult me." - The Informant
Maybe this is Moe Greene simply being Moe Greene, but I didn't see the insults. I think he was just expressing his opinion that he didn't think you were reading his comments. I guess I just ask that you recognize the "facts" of the argument. It seems to me that you've already made up your mind on the subject and you're unwilling to let anything persuade your opinion.
The true hypocrite in this discussion in the U.S. We (U.S) can invade their countries, causing much turmoil, yet when people flee the third-world conditions, we tell them "You're SOL". Doesn't seem right to me.
It seems that the Informant is all about respecting the current immigration laws--makes sense, she's a law student. And there are lots of fair laws, maybe even to some, the current immigration laws are fair laws. But there are also a lot of laws that are not fair and through protest and other forms of civil disobedience, these laws were thrown out. Examples: Jim Crow laws that kept blacks and whites segregated throughout the US pre-1950's. For prejudiced laws against non-citizens, rewind a couple of hundred years to slave codes applied to slaves throughout the US pre-Civil War.
If so many people are peacefully and publicly questioning certain current and future laws (and in this case, it's not just undocumented immigrants protesting, it's native-born and naturalized American citizens, too), shouldn't we calmly rethink the whole situation and weigh all sides of the debate? Put aside the preconceived notions of what undocumented immigrants are and close your ears to the hostile soundbites from politicians and really take a look at the issue. Unfortunately, it's really hard to get unfiltered, unbiased news about this issue through our corporate controlled media outlets. But the information is out there.
I have to say that I am with the informant on this one!!!!!!!!!!
I think that illegal immigrants need to be deported back to where they came from. They come over here, dont pay taxes properly, they take all of the jobs that pay us, because they accept half the pay that a normal person would. They all hord up in houses together, thats how they can afford to pay for things. They come into our country and speak jibberish, which makes me madder than hell! I am not prejudice at all...But if you come into this country.....SPEAK OUR LANGUAGE and PAY OUR TAXES DAMN IT!!!!!!
"I have to say that I am with the informant on this one!!!!!!!!!!
I think that illegal immigrants need to be deported back to where they came from. They come over here, dont pay taxes properly, they take all of the jobs that pay us, because they accept half the pay that a normal person would. They all hord up in houses together, thats how they can afford to pay for things. They come into our country and speak jibberish, which makes me madder than hell! I am not prejudice at all...But if you come into this country.....SPEAK OUR LANGUAGE and PAY OUR TAXES DAMN IT!!!!!!" - Anonymous
Because this person is choosing to remain "Anonymous", I figure that my response can be "No Holds Barred". I, too, take myself a little too seriously (see Joel's latest post) and I've tried to be "nice" when I disagree with someone on this blog. I guess I don't really care at this point. Afterall, I won't be able to comment here anymore, anyway.
Two things...
1) Until you master the English language, please don't attack someone for their "jibberish". (deported back to where they came from)
2) Your attitude and incoherence speaks loudly for the American population. Thank you for taking a somewhat respectable debate and summing it up for us. You're a blessing in disguise.
Bloggers/Bloggerettes:
I'm sorry for even responding to this. It truly didn't deserve my time or energy. I do feel better now, though...
Ok...so maybe my comment was a little harsh...I did not want to put my name on it because I am embarassed quite frankly...I mean I am not one to judge....Because I hate that about people....
But seriously..this is not directed toward any one particular person or group of people....
I just have my opinions....and I guess maybe I should just keep them to myself from now on out....
Cause its obvious that the truth hurts some........
informant- correct me if I'm wrong, (and I mean that because it's been like 7 years since I took Civil Rights History classes)... but wasn't part of changing the segregation laws breaking the law?
for example the restaurant sit ins, Rosa Parks' refusal to get up, and the Bus rides through the South- that was all about breaking the law to show that the law was absurd... I'm pretty sure I've seen dozens of mug shots from MLK and Medgar Evers and Jessie Jackson from when they broke the law as a form of protest... and thank god they did.
i guess i'm kind of late on the draw here. from last night to this afternoon there have been tons of comments... some of them kind of racist!
before the "debate" got super out of hand, i really appreciated what both joel and cincy had to say. i just wanted to add a couple of things.
on the issue of "rights." it seems like the informant and joel and talking past each other because they are referring to different kinds of rights--the informant making reference to "civil rights" and joel referring to "human rights."
the informant argues that undocumented workers in the U.S. have no right to be protesting. that since they are here without papers, they have no rights period.
i understand her to be talking about "civil rights" in this instance. undocumented immigrants in the united states definitely are not protected with the same kinds of civil rights as citizens and legal immigrants. however, this is a lot grey area in terms of what kinds of legal, civil rights undocumented immigrants have or should have. plyer v. doe (1982), for example, guarantees undocumented immigrant students the right to a free public education. there are other types of "civil" rights currently being debated (such as whether or not undocumented immigrants are eligible to have driver's licenses).
this illustrates that, in terms of CIVIL rights, undocumented immigrants are entitled to some, though not as many obviously, as citizens.
joel, on the other hand, is talking about the HUMAN rights of undocumented people in the u.s. this is also a grey area. i think that these protests are, in large part, about a demand for human dignity and respect.
this horrible piece of legislation, which has been the impetus for all of these protests, HR 4437, effectively criminalizes undocumented workers. making it a FELONY to cross and work here.
to immigrate and work in the U.S. is breaking a law. absolutely. EMPLOYING people without papers is also breaking a law. and yet, the legislation does not seek to make felons of the employers of undocumented wokers. why? because it's easier to target a vulnerable population like the undocumented.
mostly, undocumented workers take it. they take the crappy jobs, the low pay, the lack of insurance, the underresourced schools, etc. and they continue to work and support the U.S. economy.
but this legislation was somehow the last straw. now they are being criminalized???
these protests are not asking for any kind of CIVIL rights. they are asking for HUMAN rights. they are not criminals. they are hard working human beings. and they are demanding some dignity. they are demanding respect for what they do here in the U.S.
The legal activism of the NAACP and other organizations undoubtedly had an impact on civil rights, but that impact increased tenfold when African Americans mobilized on the grassroots level through different acts of civil disobedience. Ex. Freedom Summer led to the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Yes, legal action played a role, but so did mass protest that brought the issue to the forefront, that forced Americans to look into the issue. Mass protest also pressured politicians to take action to avoid the embarrassment of spouting Cold War rhetoric while oppressing countless Americans.
The issue is racial. Immigrants and undocumented people under attack are people of color-- Latinos, and Asians, too. I’m a Chicana, Mexican and American, daughter of an immigrant mother. You really think “authorities” are going to differentiate between dark-skinned undocumented people and me when the deportations start? There are plenty of undocumented people who speak fluent English and lived their entire lives in the US, so those identifiers won’t save them or me. Turning to the repatriation campaigns of the 1930’s shows us that the civil rights of Mexican American citizens are directly affected when the human rights of immigrants are denied.
Finally, your suggestion to file a lawsuit to contest a law is a fine option and one that I, an educated Chicana, can take advantage of. But really, how many working class people, let alone working class documented/undocumented immigrants, have the money or a familiarity of the court system to take this option?
Moe Greene earlier said that the Informant has already made up its mind. I’m beginning to think he’s right. The Informants arguments stayed with me and “informed” my stand on the issue. I can only hope something from this discussion stayed with them.
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